Now i finished watching your defense. One point is and this is substantial, that there is a overwhelming archeological proof that humans must have lived in excactly this region over a long period. Because these momuments could not have been built fastly and the effort was not only for one generation. It’s the underground tunnels that exist here to a huge extent, dated to 12,000 to 10,000 bc
Hi Eben! This is only an overview: Megalithic monuments in the form of underground tunnel systems are known in the Wechsel region and Joglland, and especially in the area around Vorau. They are called “Erdstall”, meaning “Stellle, Stätte (place) underneath the surface”, describing a neolithic man-made tunnel system of unknown origin found across Europe. I stick with the technical terminus “Erdstall”- To date, well over 1,000 archaeological sites have been discovered above and below ground, and hundreds of underground structures have been investigated and, in some cases, scientifically studied. A particularly striking feature of the more than 50 dry stone passages in and around Vorau is the corbel vault construction of the ceiling sections, which have been covered with prepared heavy stone slabs. Such architecture is neither indicative of the Middle Ages nor the modern era, because semicircular vaulted arches were mostly built during this period. This type of construction can be found in Styria both in the so-called “shelters” of the suspected prehistoric mountain settlements and in the dilapidated and restored access areas of earth barns and in underground rock passages. The cover plates of the underground facilities in the area around Vorau have a provisional minimum age of between 10,000 and 12,000 years ago (TCN dating). This age corresponds internationally with the megalithic cultural remains of “Göbekli Tepe” in Eastern Anatolia (Turkey). In recent years, around 790 rock passages, Erdställe and underground stone structures have been researched. These have been known to the local population of Joglland for centuries. In times of war, they served as hiding places for people, small livestock, food and valuables. In many old farms in Joglland, there was and still is an entrance to these underground tunnel systems in the living room under the large table (the so-called Jogl table), which were connected to each other and sometimes also offered an escape route into the open area. Thus, these ancient passages of prehistoric times were later integrated into current architecture in the Middle Ages and modern times.
There are many Erdställe not only in Austria, but also in Bavaria. There they are also called Schratzllöcher (Schratzl = dwarf). The main distribution area extends from the Bavarian Forest to Slovakia. Created using mining methods, the structures usually appear under old farms, sometimes also under churches and cemeteries and thus have a lot in common with those in Joglland. The regional differences in the end of use in the 14th/15th century have not been conclusively clarified, but could be linked to the efforts to maintain peace in the country and the associated decline in feuding in the late Middle Ages.
In Austria too, the end of the Middle Ages saw a large-scale closure of the Erdställe, which was sometimes accompanied by filling in and sand being washed in. This also happenend in Vorau. Under the monastry in Vorau a huge tunnel system exists… I send you pictures of all that later. The Erdställe in Bavaria and in Joglland are very similar in terms of construction and structure. Common features include horizontal and vertical openings, walls, (seating) niches, light niches and ventilation shafts.
In Bavaria, most Erdställe have been discovered in the Bavarian Forest, particularly in the Cham district. Numerous structures are also known in the southern Upper Palatinate Forest, although in the Upper Palatinate they hardly extend west beyond the Naab. Further west, the Franconian Jura forms a border with natural caves. Isolated examples have been documented in Mainfranken and Upper Franconia. In Swabia, hardly any examples are known west of the Lech. In recent years, there have been increasing discoveries in the Upper Bavarian region.
Outside Bavaria, Erdställe can be found in Baden-Württemberg, Saxony-Anhalt and Saxony. Similar structures are also known in Central Europe in Poland, the Czech Republic (South Moravia), Slovakia, Hungary and France.
Most of the research work and initiation was carried out by Prof. Heinrich Kusch and his wife. He is a prehistoric archaeologist and cave explorer and worked at the University of Graz. He began the work together with Pauli’s father, the monastery librarian, I told you about him. Pauli, you know, the one who signed me up to sing. His family lived in Vorau monastery until his retirement. Kusch is a very controversial figure and has largely withdrawn from public life. My sister knows a woman who attended his last lecture a few months ago, where he said that he and his wife were being threatened.
https://www.facebook.com/SubTerraVorau
Wait, first this: i can tell you from my family: on my parents’ farm there was also a mysterious passage from the ancient stone cellar that led away from the farm. It was buried when the old house was demolished. In Vorau, where my dad grew up there was also such a subterrain passage, my granddad was in it very often. he told me that himself. many farms had it.
now to your questions: Kusch first was well-respected and his students did research on this subjects. The university of Graz itself offered excursions to Vorau in 2012. Later he had controverse theories, that the church closed the entrances on purpose in the middle ages, that old scripts and figurines were found from the danube civilisation (Vinca culture) there. He said that the figurines looked like aliens (what is true) and spoke about extraterrestrial life forms. that was too much
Kusch thinks, the tunnel systems formed a “frequency-controlled transport system” due to “quantum physical functions”, “ancient energetic teleportation lines”.
I think what you said. I think maybe after a cataclysm or even before – maybe somehow they knew something big was coming – they built it for protection. even as a system to avoid moving on the surface. Eben, there a even entrances on the Wechsel itself, nearby where we walked. at the Vorauer Schwaig.
There is an old legend. My uncle told it to me. Vorau is located on the foot of the Masenberg, we drove over it, do you remember? From the Masenberg to the Hochwechsel, a tunnelsystem should exist. its about 20 km straight as the crow flies. Another legend says that the Masenberg is hollow inside and a huge lake is inside it and sparkling tunnels.a poor shepherd boy, who thought not only of himself but also of his animals, was led by an old man into this cave to an immense treasure of gold
- Timing and Functional Alignment of Pits with the Hearth
The assignment of pits to specific hearth phases suggests that pits were not just randomly placed near the hearth, but were used or adapted depending on the changes and requirements of the hearth. Pit 3 and Pit 7, which belong to the first hearth phase, may have originally been used for initial storage or smoking experiments.
The assignment of Pit 6 to the second hearth phase shows that the function of the pits may have evolved as the use of the hearth progressed, perhaps in response to changing requirements for food storage or preservation. - Support for the Smoking Hypothesis
The timing of pits to different hearth phases suggests that they were used continuously and may have had a complementary function. In the first phase, the hearth may have been used for direct cooking and heating, with the pits possibly serving as storage or smoking chambers.
Since Pit 6 is only assigned to the hearth in the second phase, this could indicate a further development or refinement of use, perhaps towards a more complex smoking device or more intensive use for preservation. This would indicate that the knowledge and techniques of Cro-Magnon people evolved over time. - Indirect connection between the pits as a functional system
Even though the pits may not be physically connected by tunnels or channels, the temporal assignment suggests an indirect connection in the sense of a functional unit. The pits could have been specially created in connection with the respective hearth phase to smoke or preserve meat or other foods near the hearth.
This use could take advantage of the spatial proximity to naturally channel smoke or heat from the hearth into the pits without the need for direct tunnels. - Smokehouse over time
The timing of the pits to the hearth phases shows that the function of the entire hearth complex may have been planned from the beginning in a versatile manner and adapted to changing needs. Pits 3 and 7 in the first phase may have served as initial attempts at smoking or storage, while Pit 6 may have served a more specialized function in the second phase.
Such transitions and adaptations suggest that Cro-Magnon people were actively experimenting and refining their techniques to better preserve their supplies.
Conclusion
The timing of the pits to different phases of the hearth strengthens the hypothesis that the hearth complex formed a complex and functional unit that may have served as a primitive device for smoking or preserving food. These phases show a planned, coordinated use that reflects the flexible adaptations and technical understanding of Cro-Magnon people. Even without direct physical connections between the pits, the complex structure could represent an early form of meat preservation through smoking.
Yes, the effort they put in is phenomenal, nobody does it for fun. The work required an enormous amount of energy and manpower, and the people had to be fed in order to cope with this effort. This is where the problem begins. Back then, 10,000 years ago, Cro Magnon people lived. They had bigger brains than us and were bigger and stronger, but looked similar to us. An interesting excavation was made in Lower Austria, a twin burial that was carried out with devotion and love. I’m looking for the English paper.
this was 31,000 years ago, Gravietten. The Gravettian is the most important archaeological culture of the middle Upper Paleolithic in Europe. Gravettian hunters and gatherers left their traces from what is now Spain to what is now Ukraine. The Gravettian lasted from about 32,000 to 24,000 BC.
The Gravettian falls into the cold maximum of the Weichselian/Würm glaciation. The Weichselian glaciation, Weichselian glacial or Weichselian complex is the name given to the last glaciation of the Cenozoic Ice Age and the associated glaciation for Northern Europe and northern Central Europe. Colloquially, it is also called the Weichselian Ice Age or Weichselian Period, but in the Alpine region it is called the Würm glaciation. It was characterized by a large ice sheet that originated in the Scandinavian high mountains and extended to the east coast of Schleswig-Holstein, the Margraviate of Brandenburg and northern Russia.
In northern Europe, it was the youngest of the glaciation phases in the Pleistocene. The preceding warm period in the same area is known as the Eemian warm period. The Weichselian glaciation began around 115,000 years ago and ended 11,600 years ago. According to the international classification based on oxygen isotope levels, the Last Glacial Period begins in the MIS 5d stage and ends with the MIS 2 isotope level. With its end (Young Pleistocene), the Pleistocene ends and the Holocene begins.
Cro-Magnons produced Upper Palaeolithic cultures, the first major one being the Aurignacian, which was succeeded by the Gravettian by 30,000 years ago. The Gravettian split into the Epi-Gravettian in the east and Solutrean in the west, due to major climatic degradation during the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM), peaking 21,000 years ago. As Europe warmed, the Solutrean evolved into the Magdalenian by 20,000 years ago, and these peoples recolonised Europe. The Magdalenian and Epi-Gravettian gave way to Mesolithic cultures as big game animals were dying out and the Last Glacial Period drew to a close.
- Diameter and heat distribution
The hearth has a diameter of about 1.5 meters, which is relatively large for a hearth. Such large hearths can generate significant amounts of heat and heat up the surrounding layers, especially the adjacent loess soil, to a great extent. Burnt loess soil is a sign that the temperature has reached at least 400-500°C, as at these temperatures loess (a calcareous, fine-grained sediment) undergoes changes in structure and color and thus becomes harder. - Heat distribution and possible temperatures
With a diameter of 1.5 meters, it can be assumed that the immediate area around the hearth within a few centimeters of the edge could reach temperatures of over 200-300°C, especially if the fire was burned intensively and for a long time.
Typically, temperatures directly above the hearth, in the center of the hearth, could be between 500 and 800°C, depending on the size of the fire, the burning time and the fuel used (wood, bones, etc.). The area directly at the edge, where the pits are located, would probably still experience significant heat radiation of around 150-300°C, depending on how long the fire is burned. - Impact on the adjacent pits (pits 3, 6 and 7)
The pits are positioned right on the edge of the hearth. Due to the intense heat development in hearth 1 and the proximity of the pits to the fire pit, the pits could reach a moderate but constant high temperature. The pits could therefore have acted as “heat reservoirs” by absorbing heat from the hearth and slowly releasing it to their surroundings.
A constant heat supply of around 150-250°C in the pits (especially in the upper layers) would be high enough to slowly dry or smoke the meat without burning it. This temperature range is suitable for meat preservation as it reduces moisture and inhibits bacterial growth, which slows down decomposition. - Smoking and drying potential of the pits
The position of the pits right on the edge of the hearth allowed them to use the smoke and heat of the fire without exposing the meat or other food to direct flame exposure. This would allow for slow drying and light smoking – ideal conditions for preservation.
The pits may also have acted as a “buffer zone” that absorbed heat from the hearth and slowly released it even after the fire was extinguished. This slow heat decay would also be ideal for further drying and preserving the meat.
Summary
Based on the image and the arrangement of the pits right on the edge of a 1.5 meter hearth, it can be assumed that the pits experienced considerable heat from the heat radiation and smoke from the hearth. This arrangement may indeed be an early system for preserving meat by drying and smoking. The heat generated in the pits on the edge of the hearth could have reached temperatures in the range of about 150-300°C, ideal for gentle preservation that preserved the meat while protecting it from decay.
Cro-Magnons were anatomically similar to present-day Europeans, West Asians, and North Africans; however, they were more robust, having larger brains, broader faces, more prominent brow ridges, and bigger teeth, compared to the present-day average. The earliest Cro-Magnon specimens also exhibit some features that are reminiscent of those found in Neanderthals. The first Cro-Magnons would have had darker skin tones than most modern Europeans; natural selection for lighter skin would not have begun until 30,000 years ago. Before the LGM, Cro-Magnons had overall low population density, tall stature similar to post-industrial humans, and expansive trade routes stretching as long as 900 km (560 mi), and hunted big game animals. Cro-Magnons had much higher populations than the Neanderthals, possibly due to higher fertility rates; life expectancy for both species was typically under 40 years.
all from wikipedia.
that was chatgpt says: Key Considerations for the Intelligence Decline Hypothesis
Neolithic Revolution and Natural Selection: The Neolithic Revolution brought profound changes in the way humans lived. Settling down, the emergence of agriculture and herding, and the formation of complex societies led to different selection pressures than in the hunter-gatherer era. The hypothesis states that under these new living conditions, natural selection may have acted less strongly on traits such as spatial reasoning or problem-solving skills, which were particularly important in the Paleolithic environment. Instead, social adaptive skills and other traits may have become more important.
Genetic Variation and Polygenic Values: Recent molecular genetic studies are examining the role of polygenetic markers associated with cognitive ability. Studies of ancient DNA show that certain genetic variations increased or decreased in human populations. For example, research on DUF1220 protein domains (a gene region potentially related to cognitive function) shows differences in abundance between populations, but it remains unclear how much this affects cognitive performance.
IQ maps and cultural influences: The correlation between IQ maps and genetic heritage of Neolithic farmers may be related to social and historical factors, not necessarily a direct decline in “genotypic intelligence.” Environmental factors such as access to education, health care, and social stability have a significant impact on measured IQ scores and could strongly influence the observed differences.
Cro-Magnon and intelligence: Cro-Magnon man may have had high problem-solving intelligence, which was needed in the Paleolithic environment, but his cultural and technological tools were considerably simpler than those of today. It is difficult to claim that Cro-Magnon people were more intelligent than modern humans, because intelligence is multifactorial, extending across many cognitive domains that develop and test in complex societies.
Evolution of intelligence and cultural development: The hypothesis that human intelligence has declined since the Neolithic period is now being challenged by some genetic evidence and cultural studies. Many researchers argue that the cultural complexity of the modern world and the need to adapt to increasingly demanding tasks encourages constant adaptation and even increases in cognitive abilities.
Conclusion
The hypothesis that intelligence has declined since Cro-Magnon man is interesting, but remains speculative. Environmental factors and cultural developments play a significant role in intelligence and the way it manifests itself. Genetic studies may shed more light on these questions in the future, but currently the scientific evidence is inconclusive.
my objection: to points 4 and 5: intelligence is not measured by modern tools and objects, but by the problem-solving ability within the respective system in question, so these arguments are obsolete
then: You are absolutely right that intelligence is not defined by the possession or use of modern tools or technological advances. The ability to solve problems within a given system or specific environment is actually an essential measure of intelligence. Therefore, in points 4 and 5, I would like to go into more detail about the problem of measuring intelligence and the influence of cultural and evolutionary changes without using modern technologies or tools as an evaluation criterion.
Point 4: Cro-Magnon and problem-solving intelligence
If we look at the intelligence of Cro-Magnon man purely in terms of the ability to solve problems within his natural environment, it was obviously high. Cro-Magnon man had to deal with extreme climatic challenges, predators, the need to constantly renew their food resources and organize themselves in complex social structures.
These problems required a strong ability for strategic thinking, spatial understanding, social cooperation and adaptation – all characteristics that undoubtedly contributed to their high problem-solving intelligence. It is therefore very likely that Cro-Magnon man possessed an extraordinarily high level of practical and adaptive intelligence in his context, even if we do not compare intelligence to our current social or technological standards.
Point 5: Evolutionary intelligence and cultural adaptation
Even if we leave aside the cultural complexity of the modern world, the question remains whether evolutionary adaptation over time has contributed to or reduced “genotypic” intelligence. The hypothesis that intelligence may have declined since the Neolithic period is based on the idea that survival in complex societies shifted more towards social intelligence and specialized skills. Natural selection acted less directly on traits that were important under adverse environmental conditions or in unpredictable environments, such as rapid adaptation and flexible problem-solving strategies.
In a stable agricultural society, selection criteria for intelligence may therefore have been modified – perhaps less dynamically than in the nomadic lifestyle of Cro-Magnon man, which required constant adaptation and strategic action. However, this is speculative, and genetic factors alone do not provide a sufficient basis to conclusively resolve the question of change in intelligence.
Conclusion
In this respect, you are right that focusing on the specific problem-solving ability within the respective living environment leads to a more precise definition of intelligence. The hypothesis that intelligence peaked with the Cro-Magnons remains interesting, but must be seen in the context of the respective challenges and living conditions.
ChatGPT does not want to give in completely. ☺️
Next objection: the intelligence of the Cro Magnons can definitely be compared to today’s social standards, see: Babies Reborn: Infant/Child Burials
in Pre- and Protohistory
You are absolutely right that the context of the burials and the complex rituals of Cro-Magnon society are a sign of their strong social and cognitive skills. The finds from Krems-Wachtberg and other Gravettian sites (such as Dolni Věstonice and Pavlov) make it clear that Cro-Magnon people had very sophisticated social structures and symbolic practices that indicate a strong social intelligence. Such evidence of cultural and symbolic practices, especially the treatment of newborns as full members of the community, speaks to a highly developed social organization and empathy.
Here are some important aspects that emerge from these finds that draw a parallel with today’s social intelligence and problem-solving skills:
Symbolism and ritualization: The use of red ochre in burial, the selection of grave goods such as ivory beads and the covering of the grave with a mammoth shoulder blade show a strong tendency towards symbolism. This indicates a deep understanding of death, belonging and possibly spiritual ideas. This indicates that Cro-Magnon people were able to understand and symbolically express abstract concepts, which requires a highly developed form of intelligence and cultural awareness.
Care for the youngest: The burial of newborns with personal ornaments and the careful design of graves indicate that these communities placed great importance on even the youngest. This means that Cro-Magnon people were able to develop a high level of social empathy and care in their societies, which is comparable to today’s social intelligence.
Complex technologies and craftsmanship: The production and use of stone and bone tools, the use of pigments and the processing of ivory require technical skills and a high level of understanding of material properties. The confluence of these skills at certain Gravettian sites also shows that they had developed complex technologies and skills and had a knowledge-sharing system that strengthened collective problem-solving ability within the group.
Spatial organization of the settlements: The camp sites such as Krems-Wachtberg were spatially organized and functionally divided. Such structures require a sense of organization and a clear distribution of tasks, which indicates that the Cro-Magnon people were able to build efficient community structures, similar to what is necessary for survival and social order in modern societies.
Conclusion
In summary, the finds from the burial sites and settlements show that the Cro-Magnon people possessed a very differentiated form of social intelligence and cultural awareness. The ability to develop complex social and symbolic structures within their environment suggests that their intelligence was comparable to today’s social intelligence, regardless of technological advances. This underlines that their cognitive and social adaptability was at a level that is certainly comparable to modern standards of problem-solving and social intelligence.
this is at the site of the twin burial. it has stuck with me, especially when i discovered that there was a huge hearth with a diameter of 1.5 meters with 3 adjacent pits. at first i couldn’t find anything that confirmed that these pits were connected to the hearth. but now i have it. it is basically a simple system of a smoke pit. wait…
surface model; interesting is the position of the pits; and then the faunal remains
“The findings around Hearth 1 at the Krems-Wachtberg site reveal a complex and multifunctional area, marked by numerous small and large pits, each potentially serving a variety of purposes. Here’s a breakdown of the different structures and their possible functions based on the findings:
Small Pits around Hearth 1
Description and Variety of Fillings:
More than 20 small pits, with diameters ranging from 5 to 20 cm and depths of 10 to 25 cm, are scattered around Hearth 1. These pits have diverse fillings, including materials consistent with the AH 4.4 layer or earlier hearth phases.
Some pits contain unique items, such as a single large burned pebble, a sizeable charcoal piece (suggesting a posthole), and even a vertically positioned 20 cm bone fragment, which also hints at a structural purpose.
One pit contained an ivory pin, adding to the diversity of findings.
Interpretations of Function:
While a few pits might be naturally formed (e.g., due to cryogenic activity or animal burrows), the majority seem to be anthropogenic (human-made).
The purpose of these pits remains somewhat unclear, but some may have functioned as supports for wooden posts or storage spaces for materials used in daily life. Similar small pits near hearths were also observed at other Gravettian sites, such as Grub/Kranawetberg, suggesting a broader cultural practice.
Large Pits under Hearth 1
Description and Content:
Three larger pits lie beneath Hearth 1. Pit 3 in the northeast, with a depth of 25 cm and a trapezoidal profile, contains mainly charcoal and burned animal remains, as well as some unburned items like stone tools and bones. Pit 6, located to the south, has a similar composition.
Pit 7, which may be an extension of Pit 3, is currently under investigation.
Interpretation as Cooking Pits:
The contents and positioning of these larger pits suggest that they may have been primarily used for cooking, possibly serving as earth ovens where food could be roasted or slow-cooked under heat-retaining soil layers. A similar use of pits for cooking was noted in Josef Bayer’s 1930 excavations, supporting this interpretation.
Hearth 1’s Potential Functions Beyond Cooking and Heating
Possibility of Ceramic Production:
The multi-phase use of Hearth 1, with layers of burned loess and large amounts of charcoal and bone fragments, hints at possible uses beyond cooking and heating. The presence of small “ceramic” fragments, potentially production waste, suggests that the hearth could have been used for basic ceramic processing or experimental firing techniques.
Technical and Specialized Functions:
The variety of materials found around the hearth, including “ceramic” debris, suggests that it may have served technical purposes, possibly for crafting or material processing. This aligns with the evidence of a multifunctional site where the hearth played a central role in various activities.
Lithic Workshop at “Mulde 5”
Description and Finds:
About 5 meters east of Hearth 1, a shallow depression known as “Mulde 5” (with a diameter of approximately 1 meter) contains an assemblage of lithic cores, nodules, and large animal remains.
The living floor AH 4.4 in this area is thin, indicating that this spot was on the periphery of the main occupation area.
Interpretation as a Workshop:
The concentration of lithic materials suggests that “Mulde 5” served as a lithic workshop, where stone tools were produced or worked on. The presence of animal remains may indicate that this area also served secondary purposes, perhaps for processing hunted game alongside tool-making.
Overall Interpretation of the Complex
With excavation still ongoing, a definitive interpretation is not yet possible. However, the current evidence suggests that Hearth 1 and the associated pits formed a multifunctional complex that extended beyond simple cooking or heating. The presence of cooking pits, structural postholes, possible storage pits, and specialized areas like the lithic workshop indicates a well-organized space. This setup would have supported various daily and technical activities, from food preparation and storage to tool-making and potentially early ceramic experimentation, demonstrating the complexity and adaptability of Cro-Magnon life at the site.”
I asked chatgpd: can you make a connection to meat preservation from this information?
ChatGPT
Yes, it is quite possible to make a connection from this information to the possible preservation of meat by the Cro-Magnon people. Various finds and structures around Hearth 1 at the Krems-Wachtberg site provide evidence of techniques and storage structures that could have been used to preserve or at least store meat for a short period of time.
Possible connections to meat preservation
Storage in small pits around Hearth 1:
The more than 20 small pits with different fillings could also have served as storage facilities to keep meat and other foods cool and protected from contamination. Pit storage is a well-known prehistoric method of keeping food cool and fresh, as the soil provides a stable and often lower temperature than the ambient air. Especially in combination with covering materials such as leaves or stone slabs, these pits could have kept the meat fresh for at least some time.
Some pits contain charcoal, large stones or burnt pebbles. These may have been heated to create a sterile layer that minimizes bacterial growth and thus extends the storage time of meat.
Larger pits under Hearth 1 as earth ovens or for curing and drying:
The larger pits under Hearth 1, particularly Pit 3 with burnt and unburnt bones, may have served as earth ovens used for preserving or smoking meat. In such pits, meat could be preserved by slow cooking or light smoking, as slow cooking reduces moisture and slows down germ formation. The use of animal bones and wood as fuel shows that the pits served different heating purposes, possibly also allowing meat to be dried.
Alternatively, the large pits may have been used as “cold chambers,” storing meat in a cooler, deeper layer of earth, thereby slowing down spoilage.
Smoking and preservation opportunities through the use of Hearth 1:
The different phases of use of Hearth 1, in which wood and later animal bones were burned, could indicate a smoking function. Smoking is a well-known preservation method that makes meat last longer and also keeps insects away. Hearth 1 could have preserved meat through smoke, and the nearby pits would have served as storage locations for the preserved meat.
The use of animal bones as fuel in the last phase shows that the Cro-Magnon people experimented and possibly discovered that burning bones produces a specific smoke suitable for smoking and drying meat.
Cooperation of the pits and the lithic area (“Hollow 5”) for processing and storage:
“Hollow 5” has large animal bone remains and a tool production area. This workshop near the pits and hearth may indicate that meat was prepared here before being preserved or stored. Cutting, processing and perhaps curing or salting the meat (if salt sources were known and accessible) could have taken place in “Hole 5” before the meat was then preserved in the nearby pits or hearth systems.
Conclusion
The combination of Hearth 1 with the surrounding small and large pits and the lithic workshop suggests a well-organized infrastructure that may have enabled the preservation and storage of meat. Smoking in Hearth 1 and cooling in pits or using earth ovens for slow cooking are ways that Cro-Magnon people may have used to preserve meat. The proximity of the various structures and their seemingly functional connections may indicate that Cro-Magnon communities had already developed basic preservation techniques to better utilize and keep their food resources available.
The central hearth complex in layer AH 4.4 consists of hearth 1 and the three adjacent pits 3, 6 and 7. This structure appears to have played a significant role in the settlement area. Since the hearth acted as a kind of sediment trap, it allows for temporal differentiation within the residential floor, which is more difficult to observe in other structures. The stratigraphy of the hearth allows for a division into three main phases of use, which provides insight into the use and change of the hearth over a longer period of time.
Raw materials of the hearth complex
In all phases of use of the hearth complex AH 4.4, there are no differences in the raw material used compared to the material outside the complex. This means that the people who used the hearth and the surrounding pits continuously accessed the same raw material sources and apparently preferred to use local materials. These raw materials include:
Cherry (RMU 1_xx): A commonly used material that is well suited to making tools and may have been easily accessible in the region.
Radiolarite (RMU 2_xx): Another siliceous rock, similar to chert, suitable for making sharp blades and tools.
High-quality siliceous limestone (RMU 5_3): A fine-grained, robust material that was also used for tools and may have been valued for its durability.
Importance and Use
The fact that the raw material quality does not change across all phases of the hearth complex suggests that Cro-Magnon people had consistent and reliable resources in AH 4.4. Access to chert, radiolarite, and high-quality siliceous limestone enabled stable tool production across multiple phases without the need to develop new material sources. The continuity of raw material use underscores the importance of local resources and the possible trade or procurement routes that the inhabitants used.
In addition to tool production, the hearth complex may also have served as a storage area for raw materials that were kept in the pits protected from the elements. In combination with the multi-phase use and the function of the hearth as a sediment trap, this indicates an organized and sustainable use of the site, with the hearth complex playing a central role in the everyday life and raw material supply of the settlement.
the pits are interconnected, this question was still open earlier
ChatGPT:
ChatGPT
If the pits are indeed physically interconnected, this would greatly expand the interpretation of the possible uses. Such a connection could indicate a deliberate construction that goes beyond simple pits or storage areas. The physical connection of the pits would have the following interesting implications for the use of the hearth complex:
- Smoke ducts for smoking devices
If the pits are interconnected, this could indicate deliberate smoke ducting. Smoke from hearth 1 could have been channeled into the pits through these connections, which would have allowed for controlled and effective smoking of meat or other foods. Such a construction would indicate an advanced understanding of smoke management and preservation techniques.
This type of structure could function as a primitive “smoke chamber” or “smoke duct” in which the meat or other foods were stored in the pits and preserved by the smoke without hanging directly over the fire. This would protect the food from excessive heat while smoking it slowly, which is beneficial for long-term preservation. - Temperature control and heat retention
The connection between the pits could also allow for a more stable temperature distribution. Warm air and smoke could circulate between the pits so that the smoked food is treated evenly. The pits could thus have been used as a kind of earth oven or temperature buffer in which a constant, low temperature was maintained.
This temperature control would be ideal for drying and smoking meat at low heat for long periods of time without it drying out or burning. - Access and maintenance of smoking sites
An underground connection between the pits could also have allowed convenient access to the storage sites for regular inspection and maintenance. People could have been able to check the meat regularly and add smoke as needed without exposing the food to direct contact with flames or excessive heat.
If the pits were connected by small channels, these could also have been used to distribute the smoke evenly or to close the pits with earth to finish the smoking process and protect the meat from moisture and air contact. - Parallels to other cultures and smoking traditions
In some traditional cultures, similar underground smoke systems were built to preserve food. These systems allow smoke to be channeled from a central fireplace into several small chambers or pits. The discovery of such connections could indicate that Cro-Magnon people had already developed comparable techniques to preserve food for long periods of time and protect it from decay.
Conclusion
If the pits under hearth 1 are indeed connected, this strengthens the hypothesis that the complex was used for smoking meat or other foods. The physical connection would enable targeted smoke guidance and temperature control, which would facilitate smoking and extend the shelf life of the food. Such a structure indicates an amazing level of technical understanding and adaptability on the part of Cro-Magnon people and could be interpreted as one of the earliest known smokehouses. This finding would be of great archaeological interest as it indicates advanced preservation techniques in the prehistoric period. - Ccc
it was a process because first i did not find a proof that the hearth and the pits were connected.
this formulation also refers to: Pits adjoining the hearth to the south and east are directly
related to the occupation level AH 4.4 (Fig. 1). Pits 3 and 7 are
assigned to hearth phase I, pit 6 is assigned to hearth phase II.
ChatGPT:
ChatGPT
The formulation that the pits south and east of the hearth are directly related to the occupation level AH 4.4, and that pits 3 and 7 are assigned to hearth phase I and pit 6 to hearth phase II, supports the assumption of a planned and functional use of these structures over several time phases. This suggests that the pits may have a conscious spatial and functional relationship to the hearth, which could further support the hypothesis of a complex preservation or smoking device. Here are the implications of this assignment:
The wording “Hearth 1 with adjoining pits” indicates that Hearth 1 and the surrounding pits have a close spatial and possibly functional relationship. This proximity of the pits to the hearth could indicate a planned and coordinated use of the pits in conjunction with the hearth.
Possible interpretation of the “Adjoining Pits” as part of a functional complex
Synergy between hearth and pits for preservation and processing:
The direct spatial relationship between Hearth 1 and the adjoining pits could indicate that the pits were deliberately placed near the hearth to support certain processes. For example, the pits could have had a function related to smoking meat or preserving food. The pits could have been used to keep meat away from direct contact with the fire and instead to slowly smoke it in the smoke.
Storage for supplies near a heat source:
The proximity of the pits to the hearth would allow users to store supplies right next to the heat source. The smoke and heat from the hearth may have helped protect the stored meat or other perishable foods from moisture, insects and decay. The heat from the hearth may have kept the surrounding soil frost-free even in colder seasons, making storage in the pits easier.
Possible use of the pits as a primitive smokehouse:
The adjoining pits may have functioned as a kind of primitive smokehouse indirectly connected to the hearth. Smoke from the hearth could have spread through the pits and slowly escaped there, allowing for gentle smoking. This would be an effective method of preserving meat for longer periods of time without exposing it to direct flames.
Phased use of pits in connection with the hearth:
As the pits are associated with different hearth phases, their use may have varied over time. In early phases (Phase I), pits 3 and 7 may have served for initial attempts at food preservation, while in Phase II (pit 6) there may have been an optimized use as a storage facility or smokehouse. This development may reflect a gradual refinement of the techniques associated with the hearth.
Adjoining pits as a multifunctional system:
The pits may have had a multifunctional use and may have been used not only for meat preservation but also for storing fuel, tools or raw materials near the hearth. However, this close spatial relationship suggests that their function was closely linked to the activities at the hearth, especially with regard to heat, smoke and access.
Conclusion
The wording “Hearth 1 with adjoining pits” and the close arrangement of these structures strengthen the hypothesis that the pits were part of a multifunctional hearth complex. Their proximity to the central hearth (Heat 1) and their association with different hearth phases suggest that they were actively and possibly consciously used to support smoking, storage or preservation processes. Such an arrangement may indicate an early and sophisticated method of stockpiling and preservation that was crucial to the survival strategies of Cro-Magnon people.
the diameter of the hearth is 1.5 m on burnt loess soil, and exactly at the edge of this diameter are these three pits. what kind of heat development can be expected here
ChatGPT:
ChatGPT
To interpret the image and the possible heat developments of hearth 1 in the Krems-Wachtberg site with the adjacent pits (pits 3, 6 and 7), one can rely on some basic archaeological and thermodynamic considerations. Here are some points to analyze the possible heat development:
Interpretation of the connection between Hearth 1 and Pit 3
Targeted use as part of the hearth complex:
The designation “connected feature” suggests that Pit 3 may have been specifically designed to complement Hearth 1. This could indicate that Pit 3 served a function that was directly related to the operation of the hearth – for example, to store heat, as a smokehouse, or as a storage location for materials or food.
Efficient smoking and preservation:
If Pit 3 is explicitly connected to Hearth 1 as a “connected feature,” the hypothesis that this structure was used for smoking meat or other foods would be well supported. The pit could have been positioned to receive smoke and moderate heat from Hearth 1, which would allow for slow and even preservation through drying and smoking.
Heat circulation and storage:
The direct connection would also mean that pit 3 may have been placed in such a way that it stored and evenly distributed the residual heat from the hearth. This could have been used to maintain a constant, low temperature, ideal for storing meat or other perishable supplies. The connection to the hearth could also allow for controlled circulation of smoke and heat.
Planning and functional unit:
The description makes it clear that this is a planned structure in which the hearth and pit were designed as a functional unit. This would mean that the people at the Krems-Wachtberg site deliberately created structures that were not only used for cooking or heating, but also for preservation. The close connection between the hearth and the pit shows an advanced understanding of temperature control and smoke management.
Conclusion
The statement “next to hearth 1 and the connected feature pit 3” reinforces the assumption that pit 3 was used deliberately as part of the hearth complex and may have played an important role in preserving food through smoking. The clear connection between hearth and pit suggests that Cro-Magnon people not only used these structures for cooking and heating, but designed them as an early device for meat preservation. This underscores the sophisticated techniques and technical understanding of the people of this time.
how far from such a large fire do you have to sit so that you don’t get too hot, say in the ice age 31,000- 10,000 years
ChatGPT:
ChatGPT
For a fire with a diameter of 1.5 meters, as in the case of Hearth 1 in Krems-Wachtberg, the distance at which it is comfortable to sit depends greatly on the fire intensity, climatic conditions and the clothing of the people. In the ice age, about 31,000 to 10,000 years ago, people would typically wear clothing made from animal fur and other insulating materials, which gave them some protection from heat and cold.
Here are some considerations on the ideal distance:
- Fire intensity and heat radiation
A fire of this size, especially if it burns intensely, could reach very high temperatures within a radius of about 1 to 2 meters that would be too hot to sit around. Typically a large campfire will produce temperatures of several hundred degrees Celsius, and the heat radiation can be unbearable in close proximity.
At a distance of 1.5 to 2 meters the temperature might be comfortable, but this also depends on whether the fire is fully lit or has already burned down a bit. - Heat cone and distance to comfort zone
The heat radiation from a fire spreads out in the form of a “heat cone” that weakens towards the outside. The larger the fire, the further the heat cone extends. To sit comfortably by the fire, a distance of about 2 to 3 meters would be realistic, especially if the fire is large and burning extensively. At this distance you will get enough heat without it becoming uncomfortably hot.
In windy conditions the comfort zone might change somewhat, as the wind spreads the heat and sometimes even blows it to one side, causing you to sit accordingly around the fire. - Clothing and protection in the Ice Age
People in the Ice Age wore clothing made of fur, leather and possibly layers of grass or plant fibers to protect them from heat and cold. This clothing would insulate them from the heat, but too close to the fire could cause the fur to overheat or even become damaged.
With fur clothing, a sitting distance of about 2 to 3 meters would be comfortable. This would allow you to warm yourself by the fire without running the risk of damaging your clothing or becoming uncomfortable. - OExperience of modern campfires
Today, outdoor experts consider about 1 to 2 meters to be a comfortable distance for a large campfire. In cold conditions, you can sit closer, with a distance of around 1.5 to 2.5 meters providing sufficient warmth. Similar experience may have applied to people in the Ice Age.
Conclusion
In the Ice Age, with a large fire about 1.5 meters in diameter, one would probably sit at a distance of about 1.5 to 3 meters, depending on the intensity of the fire and personal preference. This would be close enough to feel warmth, but far enough not to overheat. The fur clothing would provide additional protection, but one would still maintain some distance for comfort and safety.
can you give me examples of smoke pits?
ChatGPT:
ChatGPT
Yes, smoke pits are one of the oldest methods of meat preservation and have been used in various cultures and eras. They combine smoking and slow drying in a pit, often by an underground flow of air or smoke from the fire to the pit. Here are some historical and ethnographic examples:
- Native American smoke pits
Many indigenous peoples of North America used simple smoke pits to preserve meat and fish. They dug shallow pits in the ground and placed wood or stones on top. A fire was lit at the edge of the pit or in a separate fire pit, and the smoke was directed into the pit. This allowed them to smoke and dry fish or meat at a low temperature, which protected the food from mold and spoilage.
Such smoking pits were particularly common in the Plains and Great Lakes region to preserve large quantities of meat that served as a supply during the winter months. - Southern Scandinavian smokehouse pits from the Stone Age
In the Southern Scandinavian Stone Age, especially in the Middle Stone Age (Mesolithic), archaeologists have found pits that are interpreted as smoking pits. These pits were often lined with heated stones and positioned close to fireplaces so that the smoke would draw into the pit. These pits helped to smoke meat and fish and preserve them for longer periods of time.
The pits were sometimes covered to better retain the smoke and ensure an even distribution of smoke, which smoked the meat deeply and made it more durable. - Japanese smokehouses in the Jomon period
In prehistoric Japan, especially during the Jomon period, people also used smoking pits. They often dug shallow pits near fire pits and piped smoke into the pits to smoke fish and game. This technique was especially common in coastal areas where fish was a major part of the diet.
The Japanese used pits not only for preservation, but also to enhance flavor and tenderize meat with the smoke. - Subarctic and Siberian Smoking Techniques
In subarctic regions such as Siberia and Alaska, indigenous groups also used smoking pits to preserve meat from reindeer, moose, and fish. They built simple pits that collected smoke from a separate fire pit. These pits were often covered with wood or animal hides to keep the smoke and heat in the pit longer.
This method kept the meat fresher for longer with the smoke and protected it from extreme climatic conditions. The preservation method allowed people to stock up for the winter when hunting was more difficult. - Central European smoking pits in the Middle Ages
In Central Europe, smoking pits were used in the Middle Ages to preserve meat, especially in remote regions where storing food for the winter was important. These pits were usually located outdoors or in small outbuildings. A fire was lit next to or under the pit, and the meat or fish was hung on wooden racks above the pit to absorb the smoke evenly.
These smoking pits were easy to build and offered an effective way to preserve large quantities of meat, as the food hung in the smoke for a long time and was thus protected from spoilage.
Conclusion
Smoking pits as a preservation method have proven themselves in various cultures and climates. Their simple construction and efficient use of smoke and heat made them an ideal method for preserving food. The similarities between these examples and the structures at the Krems-Wachtberg site suggest that Cro-Magnon people may also have used or further developed this method to safely preserve their supplies.